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Post by Tingeling on Sept 17, 2003 14:11:40 GMT -5
With nothing to better to do at my job I read HonD for the first time today. And I've gotta say, the more I read the more I disliked Disney's version of Frollo! If you don't want spoilers for the movie or the book, go no further I never really saw Frollo in the book as a bad guy. He adopted Quasimodo out of goodness of heart and he was kind to him, let him go outside and taught him to read and write. He falls in love with Esmeralda but does not try to destroy all gypsies or even her at first. He does some bad things but he does them out of misguided love, not for some evil reasons. I felt truly sorry for him when I read the book, Phoebus was much more of a villain! Disney's Frollo on the other hand is narrow-minded, cruel and decieving. There is not a good bone in their Frollo, he is just a cold hearted jerk! I know the movie needed a villain, but IMHO it would have been more interesting to keep it the way it was in the book, with Frollo being more of a semi-villain! They had a character who got "bad actions" going, why did they need to make him Lucifer Jr? Anyhoo, what do you think?
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Post by Gracie on Sept 18, 2003 10:52:08 GMT -5
Ok, here's what Disney did---they combined Jehan with Dom Claude to create their villain. (Frollo technically is their last name, so to typically call the guy in the movie "Frollo" is more right than to call him "Judge Claude Frollo," which they only do once in the whole movie.)I actually wish they would have gone more by the book, since Hunchback is one of my favourite books, but had they done that; Phoebus wouldn't have been a hero, they would have added Pierre, and both Esmeralda and Quasimodo would have died. Not really a Disney movie, right? I'm not saying what they did is right, but it's partly justified. I do consider the Disney Frollo a full-fledged villain, though. Heck, he's one of my Fab 5 of evil! ;D He's sneaky, conniving, underhanded, and manipulative. He has a goal (Esmeralda and ridding the world of what he considers to be evil) and sways the heroes to do his bidding (has Quasi under his thumb calling him "master" for crying out loud, and directs Phoebus as captain of the guard) while becoming more and more diluded by his thoughts that he isn't doing anything wrong. In the end he believes fully that it's his way or the highway, and that God is working on his side. Poor fool. I feel a little bad that he loses his marbles enough to attack someone who could snap him in half like a twig. Sure he's not the BEST villain out there, but he's better than some I wouldn't look twice at as villains, and besides all that---he has a really great voice!
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Post by Tingeling on Sept 19, 2003 8:18:16 GMT -5
There were some elements in the book which I would have liked to see in the Disney film (their version was v-e-r-y different), mainly the warmth in Frollo's character. But much of it is far too dark to be in a Disney movie, just like you said! Makes me wonder why they chose to do the story, it seems to me like a bit of the point is lost when you have to change the story so much! Disney's Frollo I've never cared for at all, even though I do find it interesting that he's a bad guy who thinks he's doing good. But in most villains I find something likeable, something i can sympathise with - in Frollo I've found nothing. Though I do think his song is one of the best villain songs - in general HonD has fantastic music
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Post by Gracie on Sept 24, 2003 9:02:11 GMT -5
The same reason they chose to do Pocahontas. Someone had the idea, and they thought it would do well as a Disney movie. *shrugs* Sometimes they transpose well, sometimes not. It's a toss-up. I think the reason you don't like Frollo is because you sympathize/empathize with Quasimodo or Esmeralda moreso and know too many Frollos in this world. I have to admit, that is how I was when I first saw it, but something drew me to Frollo's character overall. Probably the voice---I'm a sucker like that. He's a rather simple character to analyze, but complex if you get into the book's version (Jehan, not Claude) and in this analytical day and age I can sort of see why they couldn't get in depth with that for the movie. Ah well. Makes for a good discussion anyway!
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Post by Kitty17794 on Sept 24, 2003 16:49:57 GMT -5
Gee I gotta read the book now...
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Post by joplin4 on Sept 30, 2003 18:27:59 GMT -5
I've started the book. But I'm afraid I must disagree with you Gracie. I thought that making Frollo purely evil made the film wonderful. He made a great villain. I am glad that they made Frollo into a villain.
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Post by Gracie on Sept 30, 2003 23:16:27 GMT -5
I've started the book. But I'm afraid I must disagree with you Gracie. I thought that making Frollo purely evil made the film wonderful. He made a great villain. I am glad that they made Frollo into a villain. A---I don't think you meant me, I think you meant to disagree with Ting. Reread my posts. B---I'd love for you to come in when you've finished the book and give your two cents in further, especially since you might not have gotten to the differences between Jehan and Claude quite yet.
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Post by joplin4 on Oct 1, 2003 11:50:25 GMT -5
You're right Gracie. I do need to finish the book. Also, I apologize. I thought it was you that started this thread. OK. That's all.
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Post by Gracie on Oct 2, 2003 8:56:16 GMT -5
It's alright---enjoy the book!
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Traci
Fresh Meat
Posts: 11
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Post by Traci on Oct 2, 2003 18:48:35 GMT -5
Well if he wasn't mean, the story line would be too boring if you ask me.
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Post by hollyfromhell on Oct 9, 2003 20:34:16 GMT -5
eh? i never read Hugo's novel myself. I don't think Disney was obligated to follow Frollo's character completely from the book. (let's be honest with ourselves, do they ever? ) It was inspired by the book, but it is not the story itself. I liked Frollo, mostly because my cousin is in a metal band and played a hardcore cover of "Hellfire". ;D I would have liked to see Pheobus as a villian tho. He wouldn't be as cool as Frollo, he'd probably recall someone else *coughGastoncough* ....i hated Pheobus, he was such an obvious John Smith knockoff, at least to me.
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Post by hollyfromhell on Nov 6, 2003 21:55:12 GMT -5
(posting on Gracie's request)OK now. I read the book...and it was good. I was surprised. Skipping over the part that described Paris's architecture and going straight to the story, I finished the book fairly quickly. Yes, I concede that Frollo was completely different in the book. For starters, he was an Archdeacon not a judge. He did not kill Quasimodo's mother, in fact his mother was not even introduced in the book. He adopted him out of pity when he was abandoned. In the book, I would consider him more of an anti-hero, because in the beginning he was being selfish and framed Esmeralda(using alchemy to turn a dry leaf into a coin and back again) but ended up wanting to save her. But because Esmeralda was convinced Phoebus still loved her, she ignored him and when he practically cuts his heart out of his chest and hands it to her she immediately throws it on the ground and stamps on it in front of him. So, yeah I felt sorry for him. It was actually the king that was out for her blood, but it was still Frollo's fault. He goes pretty psychotic in the end though. Another difference I found interesting was that Frollo did not have a passionate hate in his heart for gypsies. Sure, he didn't like them and they annoyed him but he didn't go out and try to destroy their Court of Miracles(which was actually a tavern in the book and not much more). All I can say is: Wow...there was a whole crapload of stuff left out and changed about the Disney version of the movie. Almost gives me an idea for a fanfic. How about, I take all the important Disney characters from HoND and have them meet the Hugo versions of themselves.
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Post by Gracie on Nov 10, 2003 23:53:12 GMT -5
(posting on Gracie's request)OK now. I read the book...and it was good. Yes, I concede that Frollo was completely different in the book. For starters, he was an Archdeacon not a judge. Thanks for jumping back in. Ok, slight correction---"Frollo" was technically both the Archdeacon AND the judge, but Claude was one and Jehan was the other. Like I said before, technically Disney mixed and combined them into the bad guy we know from the movie. At any rate, I'm glad we have more of the readers' imput.
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Post by hollyfromhell on Nov 12, 2003 16:19:22 GMT -5
er....Claude Frollo may only have been an Archdeacon, but Jehan Frollo was much younger than Claude. He had many positions in the book: irresponsible scholar, drunk, prankster, idiot, punk, freeloader and finally a vagabond when he joined the gypsies toward the end of the book. But no one named Frollo was ever a judge in this book. Jehan was Claude's younger brother(Claude was only 35 in the story as opposed to i'd guess about 66 in the disney version)
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Post by Gracie on Dec 3, 2003 12:15:20 GMT -5
I need to recheck the book. I had a point and I lost it because I think I got a story mixed up with that one---or something. To be honest, my mind isn't right now what it was before in sharpness or memory. Then I started crossing characters. Pierre, Jehan, next I'll be thinking Esmeralda is Fleur de Lys. Watch me bow out of this talk til I get my head on straight.
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