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Post by Jessamine on Nov 6, 2003 11:59:11 GMT -5
I just watched Finding Nemo the other day and was a little disappointed that there wasn't a villain. Now I'm re-examining movies left and right - what other movies failed to include the all important villain??  (Edit by admin: just fixed the title so it said that instead of "TEXT") |
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Post by Gracie on Nov 6, 2003 12:28:03 GMT -5
You'd be surprised. Bambi---the hunter wasn't a villain, he was a threat-sure, but he wasn't a villain. Dumbo---the closest you get here are antagonists, but not "villains" in the Elephants and the Ringmaster. They're nothing like Stromboli or the Coachman in Pinocchio who are evil. Lilo & Stitch---ok, let's name off the "possibilities" shall we? Jumba. Anti-hero, not a villain. Villains do not turn good by the end and team up with the hero. Gantu. Again, Anti-hero, not a villain. If you think he's a villain, you obviously think the Grand Councilwoman is a villain as well! She's the one who sent him to go retrieve Stitch when she figured Jumba and Pleakley couldn't do it, remember? He was just doing his job, people. Stitch. Ok, duh? Hero. He was created to be bad, but turned good, and then he saved Lilo. There was no villain in that movie. Finding Nemo---You're right. No villain. You can't call "P Sherman, 42 Wallaby Way, Sydney" the villain, because he believed he saved Nemo from the reef. Tell me that when you see a wild animal with a gimpy something that you don't think you're saving it by taking it home and keeping it as a pet! Darla? Ok, she's bad, but she's spoiled. She's not really a villain. She doesn't TRY to kill fish, it just happens. She plays a little too rough, so think of her as a female "Lenny" (Of Mice and Men) who should know better, but is too spoiled. Brother Bear---NO VILLAIN. There's 3 human males who just don't fall under the category in any way, and a bunch of animals who definitely don't fit either. It's not like TLK where you have someone trying to take over something so they have to kill someone or anything. Sorry folks, no villain. Like I said, you'd be surprised.  Yet people seem to think every movie has a villain. No. Every movie has an antagonist, but not every movie has a villain. |
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Post by Jessamine on Nov 6, 2003 12:55:49 GMT -5
I'd forgotten about Bambi and Dumbo...  I was so disturbed by Bambi as a child that I think I just assumed there was a villain in there. Or maybe I just made one up in my head... |
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Post by Jillian on Nov 9, 2003 0:17:46 GMT -5
I was noticing that in Brother Bear when I saw it.
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diartest
Bumbling Sidekick
I am Lady Tremaine according to VillainLair's Villain personality test!
Posts: 88
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Post by diartest on Nov 9, 2003 13:52:11 GMT -5
wait.... doesn't that mean that the last three animated movies by Disney have been without a villain?! Whats going on here!
of course I could be wrong.... I hope I'm wrong.... I hope this isn't a trend!
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Post by Gracie on Nov 10, 2003 23:20:38 GMT -5
wait.... doesn't that mean that the last three animated movies by Disney have been without a villain?! Whats going on here! of course I could be wrong.... I hope I'm wrong.... I hope this isn't a trend! Not to worry, my friend, there is STILL hope in Home on the Range! Alameda Slim looks to be a grand villain, and I hope to be happy and add him to the list of those I don't think suck.  |
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diartest
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I am Lady Tremaine according to VillainLair's Villain personality test!
Posts: 88
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Post by diartest on Nov 11, 2003 10:15:20 GMT -5
Not to worry, my friend, there is STILL hope in Home on the Range! Alameda Slim looks to be a grand villain, and I hope to be happy and add him to the list of those I don't think suck. That would be grand my friend, simply grand! ;D I will now hope that Alemeda is a nasty villain to make up for the last three movies that lacked villains!  |
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Post by Jessamine on Nov 11, 2003 18:20:41 GMT -5
I say we round up the troops and hit the picket line... We demand evil villains in all Disney movies! We want our kids to have nightmares, too! Down with the Princesses! (Sorry, got carried away there.)
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Post by Gracie on Nov 12, 2003 0:05:00 GMT -5
I say we round up the troops and hit the picket line... We demand evil villains in all Disney movies! We want our kids to have nightmares, too! Down with the Princesses! (Sorry, got carried away there.) I'm right there with you! DOWN WITH PRINCESSES definitely down! And nightmares, I'm all for those too. ;D Yeee-ah! Is it wrong for me to hold my hope in Alameda Slim?  I think not.  |
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Post by Jillian on Nov 12, 2003 20:07:56 GMT -5
Just not down tooo far |
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Post by Gracie on Dec 3, 2003 12:16:22 GMT -5
No, just far enough! |
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Ansuz
Fresh Meat
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Post by Ansuz on Dec 3, 2003 22:15:04 GMT -5
I hate to argue (who'm I kidding, I love to argue), but "Finding Nemo" does have a villain -- you just don't see him anywhere but at the beginning killing mom and her kids. He may just be there for a few seconds, but definitely a villain!
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Amy
Fresh Meat
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Post by Amy on Dec 3, 2003 22:40:40 GMT -5
Oh, the barracuda thing? I forgot about him Can it really be considered a villain though since it's pretty much following instinct? |
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Ansuz
Fresh Meat
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Post by Ansuz on Dec 3, 2003 22:54:36 GMT -5
In that case, you'd have to agree that humans just follow their instincts when they kill one another and start wars, right?
I hope no one agrees with that statement, and if you don't, you must recognize that the barracuda is NOT acting on instinct
I mean, it's not a real barracuda -- it lives in a world humans are supposed to find familiar. The fish, turtles, and other sealife don't look human, but they sure live like us. The barracuda is part of the society of this underwater world, and we have to see him as just as conscious as the other characters. We're supposed to identify the barracuda (who traumatizes Marlin and permanently disfigures Nemo) as the most evil of people out there, and killing children is a definite way to teach us that.
No, definitely a villain; a villain with a small part yes, but still a villain.
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diartest
Bumbling Sidekick
I am Lady Tremaine according to VillainLair's Villain personality test!
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Post by diartest on Dec 3, 2003 23:42:54 GMT -5
eh.... humans might have instincts but we don't _always_ follow them. not everything we do is by instinct. Humans have intelligence (and thats not to say that baracudas don't.... we don't really know if they do or not).
The baracuda's development... and role as a character is infinitely small (I'm not saying he didn't have a big impact, cause he did there is no denial of that ;P), that I have a hard time saying he is much of a villain. We know nothing of this shadow of a character. I don't know if he had been even scoping out the area for a week before he attacked or whether it was a drive by happenstance ;P of following instinct.
Following instinct doesn't count for being a villain to me... because if thats the case... wouldn't that mean that the lions in Lion King who ate meat were all villains? ;P No, we are shown that Scar plotted the demise of Simba's father. He reflected enough intelligence to know of what his actions were. He might have the nature of being evil but he also chose to be evil.
If I had been shown any hint of this I would say yeah, the baracuda could be a villain, but we aren't.
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Yet people seem to think every movie has a villain. No. Every movie has an antagonist, but not every movie has a villain.
